If there’s an example of the current trend of comedy in America away from actual jokes and toward proselytizing woke nonsense, particularly in the years after Trump won in 2016, it’s Jim Gaffigan. The formerly funny comedian switched horses midstream in his career, going from gut-busting jokes about food to woke drivel about the bad orange man.

Well, the world’s top podcaster, Joe Rogan, recently hosted fellow comedian Jim Gaffigan for his usual sort of long-form and freewheeling interview. During the podcast episode, Rogan argued that Ray Epps might have been a federal agent and that America’s intelligence agencies were involved in sparking the protest.

Speaking about the intelligence agencies and claiming that they were involved in starting the breach of the Capitol, Rogan told Gaffigan, “The January 6 thing is bad, but also, the intelligence agencies were involved in provoking people into the Capitol Building. That’s a fact.”

Continuing, Rogan got to Ray Epps and what evidence he thinks there is that suggests that Epps wasn’t a protester but was instead a federal agent. Rogan noted that the corporate press has defended Epps, unlike every other J6 protester, that Epps was not arrested until very recently, and that “a lot of people think” Epps was a federal agent or informant.

Speaking about Epps and describing why he thinks Epps might have been a federal agent, though noting that he’s not sure what the truth is, Rogan said, “I don’t know, but I do know that every other, I think that every other person who was involved in January 6, who was involved in coordinating a break-in into the Capitol and then instigating people, they were all arrested. This guy wasn’t. Not only that, but they were defending him in the New York Times, the Washington Post, all these different things saying Fox News is unjustly accused him of instigating when he clearly instigated, he did it on camera. I don’t know if he was a fed, I know a lot of people think he was a fed.”

Gaffigan the leftist, for his part, was skeptical of Rogan’s theories. He said that he was “more suspicious why Trump didn’t call for backup when you know, for the Capitol police.” Rogan, rebutting Gaffigan’s dismissive comment, said that the use of agent provocateurs is a “standard tactic” with which intelligence agencies deal with “someone [who] is the enemy of the intelligence agencies.”

Emphasizing that he thinks that is what was going on, Rogan then said, “With Trump, that’s absolutely the case. Trump set himself up against the intelligence agencies.” Gaffigan again tried to dismiss that, saying, “So you’re saying when he was in Helsinki and he was saying ‘I believe Putin more than my intelligence community,’ that was something the intelligence community was like ‘we’re gonna get him’?”

Rogan argued that the intelligence agencies wanted to take Trump down because he was pointing out their incompetence and corruption, telling Gaffigan, “Well, I think they were going to get him in any way that they could because he’s an enemy of the intelligence agencies, and he was openly talking about them being incompetent and being corrupt.”

Watch the back and forth here: